Monday, October 11, 2010

Something interesting in regards to herding...

Or so I think...talking with friends about herding and methods...

Using pressure to get the dog to work versus using pressure to get the dog to think...

Making the dog right or getting the dog to think about what IS right...

aka if you want an outrun, standing in between the dog and sheep to "make" the dog right on the outrun. They can't be wrong and are always right due to your pressure already there.

Or...sending the dog from your feet, teaching the dog to cast out correctly and using pressure to tell the dog "try something different"...which will require failure on the dogs part...

Interesting how that is so different...not sure why I am thinking of that tonight...but I guess I am in a hotel and bored :)

Curious what all of YOU think of it...even if you don't work dogs on stock...I am interested :)

6 comments:

livin life said...

Okay....so you know what I think....but here is one for you. I was just at a Kathy clinic...and one of my dog has been exhibiting "tension" on the top end...and a few other places at times. Kathy told me I was bang on with my timing keeping her out of trouble. Now I need to work the dog to let her know how to deal with trouble...cause I can't always keep her out of it! I have homework...I'll share with you...but those have been my thoughts for the day! Same idea...just another twist. Not me "making her right" but certainly not allowing her to be wrong. I think I should take up drinking or maybe drugs! :)

fulltiltbcs said...

I would love to hear more about this...can't wait to get to Kathy in November! :)

Definetly let me know what you are doing, love this stuff!

Hillcrest Border Collies said...

I am all for using pressure to get the dog to think. Back when I started (13 years ago) I was taught pressure to get the dog to do right. I have since evolved in the way I think and train dogs.
I won't put a dog in a place where they are wrong over and over. In that case I will need to back up a step or set up a situation to help out. But then I am going to go back to getting the dog to think about what they are doing.

KPR said...

Lora, I would also like to hear what your homework is also. This topic has me thinking ... and evaluating my training style. I am about to start Reese as soon as I get my round pen up, and I have a feeling she might be the type to take advantage if I get her used to being "made" right. So I think it might be good for me to teach her how to deal with trouble from the getgo.

I don't know if I explained that right.

Jaenne said...

I think it depends on the dog. If I had just started sending Mo from my feet for an outrun, with her eye, outruns would have been like banging my head against a wall. Even though her outruns are generally pretty good now, when we did our first blind outrun, I went up the field a little bit, not to put pressure on her to be correct, but to give her confidence that there were sheep out there even though she couldn't see them. In general, if you see me working with Mo, its to boost her confidence, not to use pressure to get her to do the right thing.

Taryn said...

I don't do herding with my corgis, I wish I did but there is only so much time/money and mine goes to agility. Anyhow, it sounds like you are thinking about teaching the outrun by shaping the behavior instead of just phycially blocking a wrong move. It seems to me the dogs will learn alot more/understand alot more when given the chance to offer the correct behavior. It works with trick training and agility, so I guess it would work with herding... of course I don't really know....But, hey, both my boys did pass their instinct test so maybe sometime I get the opportunity to learn!